|Richard La Ruina|
(Please allow 2 minutes for the MP3 file to download if you want to listen to the discussion)
Michael : I'm really pleased that we have Richard with us this afternoon, who's written 'The Natural Art of Seduction' and runs live training sessions in London .
Richard : Thank you for inviting me.
Michael : Can you kick off by giving our listeners a bit of an introduction to yourself, a little bit about your background and what you do at the moment?
Richard : Sure, my name is Richard La Ruina and I'm currently a fulltime trainer, I train men in how to be better with women, and we do this in a different way to life coaches and other people, we actually train guys in practical, usable techniques.
We demonstrate for them on women and we actually take them out and hone their skills until they're able to do the things that they come to be able to learn - for example getting dates, getting numbers, being more attractive, we'll give them a guide to fashion, we'll work on them in every way.
And as well as doing that I run the business, I've just written a book the book that you're talking about 'The Natural Art of Seduction'. My background is that I was actually very bad with women myself, and I had to learn all of this stuff from scratch. I was someone that was bad socially, I was painfully shy, I was an introvert, and I was kind of stuck in a rut - I didn't have the ability to make friends, and I didn't have the ability to socialise, and of course I didn't have the ability to meet women, get them attracted to me, get dates, to be interesting on dates, and all these things that are very important in having a happy love life.
Michael : And how did you actually get into the seduction business? You obviously went through some transformation.
Richard : I think a lot of guys have heard of Ross Jefferies, and I did actually see his materials a while back, he does NLP for seduction basically - and I was studying NLP, the old Bandler and Grinder books and those sorts of things, but I didn't actually take it seriously, that wasn't the turning point for me.
The turning point for me when I met an American seduction-guru by chance in Leister Square, and he recommended some books and websites, and that started my journey. At first it was just six months of just staying in my house and reading books and watching videos and listening to audio, and after that it was applying that in the real world in London.
Michael : Moving on from that, in your book you mention three characters, Mr Sociable, Mr Comfort and Mr Seducer, can you just talk a little bit about them and particularly the sequence that they could be used in?
Richard : Sure - the basic idea is based on the type of customer I get and just the problems that I normally encounter when I'm teaching someone. These are normally guys that are interesting, they're nice guys that would make a good boyfriend, and they're unable to demonstrate that to a girl in the first few minutes - they start the conversation in a boring way, they ask lots of boring questions, and they're very low energy - and it makes them very hard to get started, to get the good first impression.
So the idea is, that they're good when they're in a one-on-one situation, when they're comfortable. And that's actually later on in an interaction with a stranger, that's maybe half an hour in the middle of it, so what they need to do is they need to develop these extrovert skills, these qualities of the sociable person, and this comes in the first character which is this fun, sociable guy.
His job is to be more interesting than what they are doing currently. So if they're talking to someone that's bored by a tube station waiting for someone, it's going to be quite easy to be more interesting than that. However, if you're talking to some girls that have been drinking, they're in a big group, they're in a loud environment, it's going to be tougher.
So the idea is to give them a toolkit so that they can adjust how interesting they are, how high their energy levels are, so that they have the ability to start a conversation and get to the point where people are engaged with them and do that consistently in all different environments. So that's the job of the fun, sociable guy.
The second character is Mr Comfort, and his job is to connect, to find reasons to see that person again, to get over this surface level banter that we have with our hair dresser, and with our aunt that we see every six months - and get down to really what makes that person tick, their motivation, their character traits, their emotions, these things.
The third character is The Seducer, because I found a lot of men were having the problem of making friends with a woman that they really wanted as a girlfriend, and it was happening because they were missing that point where they needed to escalate things and needed to put in some sexual tension, and to go for the kiss, so they also need to learn the characteristics of someone who is very seductive.
And have the ability to inject sexual tension into a situation, so that a woman that's sitting there thinking 'this guys interesting' starts thinking, 'actually I'd like to kiss this guy.' 'Is he single?' 'Could he maybe be my boyfriend?'.So the three characters are a way of applying a structure to a woman that you've just met, with the aim of progressing through the stages of being two strangers, of being in a conversation, and then eventually taking things to the point where you could see them as a romantic partner, and go for the kiss. And this kind of thing.
Michael : And is the sequence important?
Richard : The sequence is always the same in 95% of cases. The only cases where it wouldn't be the same are where you already know the person or maybe when you're in a very noisy nightclub.
Michael : And how would it be different if you knew the person? and how it be different if you were in a noisy nightclub?
Richard : If you already know a person, you don't generally have to worry about the first two stages, you're already in a situation where they won't reject you if you start talking to them, and they know something about you so there's not too much work to be done in terms of building trust and comfort - there might even be quite a bit of connection.
Generally the only elements that would be missing are them seeing you as a potential mate, and making them feel attracted to you. Kind of bridging that gap between friend and boyfriend.
In the nightclub it's different because you can't do so much verbally, so you can't really have this in-depth chat, and you can be a lot more sexual, so you might find that you could meet a girl and very quickly be kissing her, and then you could go off and have a chat afterwards, and fill in the blanks in the getting-to-know-her part.
Michael : I appreciate that I'm asking you for a huge generalisation because every body's different, but what generally are the sorts of characteristics that make men attractive to women?
Richard : It's not that much of a generalisation, I think there are character types that are almost universally attractive. Women always say 'confidence' and the worst advice to men is to 'just be confident' because you really don't have to do that, but if you think about it - what makes up confidence? I think that it's a sense of comfort with your environment, and with conversation, so if a guy approaches a woman and is sweating and nervous and uncomfortable, it's going to be hard for her to relax and it's going to be hard for her to find him attractive.
If he's completely comfortable in that environment, completely comfortable talking to strangers, completely comfortable talking to her, that's one attractive quality that comes with confidence.
So are things like certainty, in what you say and a strong reality, so someone that meet a girl, and she says 'oh I like sushi, do you like it?' and the guy goes '...yeah, yeah I do...' he doesn't, he's just saying - he wants to agree with her, he's saying 'me too'.
Someone who seeks rapport when it's not really there, someone that would bend and change, and shift his viewpoint, because he wants her to approve of him - someone who is unsure about themself so needs to get this approval off of other people, to get this connection with other people, is not very attractive.
A man that has a sense of purpose in life, has something that he's doing, other than wanting her - so he's into his business, he's very into his person development, whatever it might be, if there's something that's a passion - it's very attractive to meet someone that has passions and interests and doesn't just give all of that up once they meet someone that they become romantically involved in.
I think that women want someone who is slightly unattainable. They never 100% have them. And the guy is obviously attractive to other women. And she's not there whenever she wants him.
So he does do other things, he does go to classes. And in the early stages of a relationship he's not available for dates every day of the week, he's not calling her every day, he's not sending her flowers every Tuesday. There's a bit of unpredictability and unattainableness, because I think men generally say 'you're an attractive women, I'm here, I want you here anytime, just let me know' and women are the ones that are slightly hard to pin down, that are busy doing things, that don't give up their activities and interests to go on a date, but a man will dump all his trends, all his plans, if an attractive woman wants to go on a date with him.
So you can look at these principles as pretty much universal, and they come from a wider umbrella of confidence and how does a confident, successful man behave? And the useful thing is that you can apply them, almost as techniques while you build the confidence.
Michael : So you're saying actually, playing with this stuff or exploring this stuff, is actually a means in itself of developing those traits.
Richard : Of course yeah. Because if you know the correct body language traits, for example, you will be in the club and you will look more attractive. Because you'll have the right body language you'll get better reactions - you getting those good reactions will make you feel better - you knowing that you don't look uncomfortable or unconfident anymore will make you feel better.
When you have some, even silly chat up lines, and you go and use them in bars and in the streets, that's going to give you confidence because you get not-so bad response. So all along the process, as long as you're seeing improvement and learning things, and applying it, you should naturally build your confidence.
I think I've changed from someone who was scared of everything, scared of standing up in class, scared of meeting friends of friends - I'd blush, I'd shake, and I'd just avoid any sort of conversation. Now I embrace it, I'm happy to go on live TV, I'm happy to speak in front of five hundred people. Nothing really phases me, and that's happened gradually, just getting success, just getting the technique, trying it, and getting the results, and there was a snowball effect.
Michael : Now what you're doing follows on from The Game and Mystery, and other people - what do you think you're doing that's different? Is is the same as they've been doing, or have you added your own thing to it?
Richard : It's only the same in the very broad sense that it's seduction. And it's teaching guys how to be better with women.
I'd say that the main thing that distinguishes us is that we're taking a wider approach - we don't want the demand to just be more attractive in just those five minutes, we don't want to give into the lies and the tricks that work for a few hours, we see that as a road to unhappiness.
We want to teach the natural skills, the ones that he can use at work, with friends, to just become generally more sociable, more popular and become a better person, rather than fake it with routines and gimmicks and magic tricks.We thinks they're very shallow - we think that there's a much better way to do things, and that if you keep your approach flexible, and you adjust it based on the woman that you're talking to - rather than treating all women the same, and in a lot of cases misleading them, or tricking them for the short-term game.
Michael : A question that I find curious - what do you think it is in simple terms that is the difference between a man seducing a woman and a woman seducing a man?
Richard : Well, the big difference that men and women have is that the man is the one that has to approach, he has to ask to spend time with the woman, to be able to get her number, to be able to go on a date, he has to make the move for the kiss - he basically has to lead and ask questions all the way through the interaction - and the woman's job is simply to let it happen or to block it.
Michael : If you were going to teach a woman to attract a man, would you be teaching them similar things or would you be teaching her different things?
Richard : I would teach them very different things, I would maybe teach them on body language, a fashion and style and the types of things that would get men come up and talk to them more.
However I would assume that if they went and stood in a bar they would have guys come up and talk to them because that's the general situation that women are in, and I think that they're job once men come up and talk to them is quite limited because the guy's already decided that he finds her attractive sexually, if he's come to chat them up.
So their job in that situation is to decided whether that man is any good or not.
So he's going to be presenting his best self, it might be true, it might not be. So she needs a way to separate the wheat from the chaff when approached by all these guys.
A lot of women make the mistake of approaching the wrong man over and over again, and one of the reasons its so hard to tell the difference between the man with the fake smile and all the great things, and the guy that's just making it up.
The other thing is, when they've found the guy that they want, how do they keep him? That's an issue for women as well, so they have this girl that they really like, but the man has gone from seeing her as this challenge, this beauty, that he wants to get into a relationship with, and now she' s become an ordinary woman, and now she's that and eyes go roaming and he might go elsewhere.
Michael : Before we come to the end of this conversation, and before I ask you if there's anything that you'd like to plug , or give your contact details - is there anything else that you'd like to say in addition, or in summary about seduction that you think is important that maybe we haven't covered?
Richard : It's a massive area, it's always hard when I have to cut things down.
One take away that I'd give is no matter your situation at the moment, whatever your level, whatever mistakes you've made, whatever bad things have happened to you, or even good things - you can always be better, this is now an area rich knowledge, lots of resources, and a few experts that can help you along the way, so if you're willing to dedicate the time and the effort, you can become very, very good, and these skills translate themselves very well outside the area of seduction.
I'm very good in meetings or job interviews, whatever the situation that involves social interaction, so there's wide, far-reaching benefits, so there's definitely something you can handle.
Michael : Is there anything you'd like to plug, and could you leave us your contact details?
Richard : Sure thing. The easiest way to check out the kind of stuff I teach is to check out the book, 'The Natural Art of Seduction' which is in Amazon and in bookshops everywhere, the other thing you should do is check out my website which is www.puatraining.com which has free video, audio, lots of free stuff and also a way for you to get in touch with me.
Michael : Excellent, thank you very much Richard.
Richard : Thank you.
You may be interested in Certified NLP Training.